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Post by Twilitbeing on Jan 26, 2011 5:33:20 GMT
Interesting idea you have there. I like it.
It comes to mind that the Cosmo in my counterpart story had her amulet broken, and threw it into space for a bit of acceleration. An event like that would normally be significant later, but I couldn't think of anything... Under your theory, though, it could have major implications...
Meditate on this, I will.
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Post by XT-421 on Jan 26, 2011 11:41:45 GMT
And you gave me a slight bit of an idea... I do NOT want something like that to occur, so I must find a way for her to get an amulet. And if all amulets are essentially the same...... Hmmm. Ideas be a churnin'.
6 more weeks 'til freedom.
~Joe
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Post by Twilitbeing on Jan 27, 2011 3:23:19 GMT
Another odd comment: "restraining bolt" is almost exactly how I would describe my take on Shadow's bracers - that, or "pressure valve," seeing as he can still let out some metaphorical steam.
Ah, a voice echoes: Two ends with a common root, or two roots with a common end...
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Post by galaxina on Jan 27, 2011 3:57:39 GMT
Well for the males, I always thought their transformations was unnatural and caused by some mutagen or plasmid or something that they injected themselves with, and that was only the ones who went against, not all of them in general. Like there transformation wasn't natural or they were born with, but artificially gained, though they could control when it happened. And Cosmo's was unique and was really her super form. Since the chaos emeralds were in close proximity, the energy broke her jewel, and then she went super, just like Sonic and Shadow did.
And one last thing, I also noticed Galaxina does wear a gold belt, but Chryssie also has a Silver Necklace that looks very similar. Think it could mean something?
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Post by XT-421 on Jan 27, 2011 11:24:07 GMT
I have not got into it fully yet, but, I would first need to know who the other person is. Secondly, I would have to check Hertia for any similar marking. Hertia is nearly certainly the leader of the seedrians. Galaxina SEEMED to hold that role during the time of Cosmo's birth. IF Hertia had the belt or the neckalce, then it is a high probability that those two had positions of power.
As for the males, I am SURE of the gem restraining them, and furthermore, I am SURE of the ability to consciously turn into the monsters.
I'll pull the youtube and quote it.
(No belt or necklace appear to be on Hertia.)
In the very first few minutes, you see a male metarex consciously transform into a ferocious monster to protect his girlfriend/wife.
If you keep watching, Hertia explains the amulet. "If you wear this, you won't ever go to the final phase."
The thing that frightens me most is the callousness of the seedrians that raised Cosmo. Sure, SHE is an innocent little girl, but her kin nuked their males that decided to stay on the planet. At least they hesitated...
Perhaps we really don't have a good image of the personality of the general Seedrian...
~Joe
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Post by galaxina on Jan 27, 2011 20:46:23 GMT
I mean the males could control it, but not all males could do that. Just the extremist type males could, and that was because they mutated themselves somehow to do it. Like normal male seedrians can't do that, the extremists just wanted to become stronger, so they injected themselves with some sort of mutagen or something and gained this power that they could call upon at will. Afterwards, those extremists sort of advanced themselves in other ways over time and created many different bionengineered creatures to populate and serve as an army, and eventually, they became their own cybernetic-hybrid alien race called the metarex, who were now so powerful, they could practically be considered gods. At least that's how I see it.
And Cosmo's was definately a super form, since the chaos emeralds were close by and she was glowing in the same manner. The jewel just prevented her from becoming a tree later on.
Also I am pretty sure they didn't kill all the males, just most of the extremist type ones as mentioned, but some who were actually good also fled the planet with them. After all, how would they reproduce and have somebody to love then. Plus I'm sure not every boy seedrain is bad, thinking of them as a whole species.
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Post by XT-421 on Jan 29, 2011 22:28:45 GMT
I will break this down into handlable bits.
1. I think it is mostly safe to assume that the Seedrian race is wiped out with the death of Cosmo. There are stipulations that Red Pine, Cosmo, a few of her sisters and possibly a few of her potential children could survive, but, unless a miracle happens, it is unlikely that any survived. I beleive that the war that the Seedrians were engaged in before the birth of the Metarex was very taxing on their population, reducing a potentially galactic civilization down to a single cradle world. When Hertia and the others fled, they did kind of nuke their planet to kill off anyone who could follow them.
2. The only Male seedrians to survive happened to be the extremists. I know from experience in swimming, if you set your will to something, you WILL attain it. Anyone left on the surface, (basically, we are to assume that all men were "manly" enough to stand and fight, and the women were too "coward" to fight,) was supposed to be killed in an explosion. Because Dark Oak, Red Pine, Yellow Zelkova, ect. were too obsessed with fighting and winning, and so filled with hatred when their world crumbled around them, (possibly literally,) their hatred fueled them to stay alive. They were men on a mission. They sought ought life, fueled by the planet egg, and empowered themselves with mechanical suits, becoming the metarex.
3. The Metarex aren't hardly on the scale of gods. They are powerful, yes, close to divinity, possibly, but not gods. I see it like this: Chaos Emeralds, (and things of similar creation throughout fiction, such as the Triforce, or my Arcanium Gems,) are things of divinity. They give off divine power. Planet Eggs are dwarfed by that. But, the Metarex had a LOT divided into a little. They had the lifeforce-fuel of [how many?] planets stacked behind an army that could probably fit on two planets total. Each being packe a punch, especially when a single Metarex King could have the fuel for an entire planet or more all to himself. He wouldn't be a god per se, but he would be filled with a LOT of energy. Sonic, in Super mode, is on the scale of a low-ranking god, that is why he prevails [so far] everytime.
4. Women actually do not need men to exist. This is a sad, scary truth in Sonic X and in real life. (We have the technology, or rather, women have the technology, to inseminate themselves with artificially produced x chromosome sex cells. The need for men is not there.) And in the seedrian world, I believe it is possible for Seedrians to reproduce asexually, like most all plants do.
5. I believe that, because the Chaos emeralds were already being used by Shadow and Sonic, that it was not a super transformation, only a sudden release of a long-in-place restraining bolt. Also, aside from Blaze in her Sol Emerald form, to date I think it is safe to say that NO female character has gone super in licensed Sonic Team games or spinoff series.
~Joe
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Post by galaxina on Mar 10, 2011 18:08:59 GMT
1. I think it is mostly safe to assume that the Seedrian race is wiped out with the death of Cosmo. There are stipulations that Red Pine, Cosmo, a few of her sisters and possibly a few of her potential children could survive, but, unless a miracle happens, it is unlikely that any survived. I beleive that the war that the Seedrians were engaged in before the birth of the Metarex was very taxing on their population, reducing a potentially galactic civilization down to a single cradle world. When Hertia and the others fled, they did kind of nuke their planet to kill off anyone who could follow them.~Joe Yellow Zelkova could've survived too, since we didn't see him acutally fal into the magma. He may have grabbed onto a ledge or something at the last moment and could've made it. And I definately think Red Pine would've survived. Someone like him just wouldn't go down that easily. 3. The Metarex aren't hardly on the scale of gods. They are powerful, yes, close to divinity, possibly, but not gods. I see it like this: Chaos Emeralds, (and things of similar creation throughout fiction, such as the Triforce, or my Arcanium Gems,) are things of divinity. They give off divine power. Planet Eggs are dwarfed by that. But, the Metarex had a LOT divided into a little. They had the lifeforce-fuel of [how many?] planets stacked behind an army that could probably fit on two planets total. Each being packe a punch, especially when a single Metarex King could have the fuel for an entire planet or more all to himself. He wouldn't be a god per se, but he would be filled with a LOT of energy. Sonic, in Super mode, is on the scale of a low-ranking god, that is why he prevails [so far] everytime.~Joe I beg to differ. Remember in Episode 53 with Super Sonic's first battle with Oak. Oak first of all was winning, to Super Sonic, and he was actually causing him harm (even though Super Sonic is usually invincible), which led to when Sonic used Chaos control to transport the emeralds out of reach. It actually took 3 super forms to beat Oak in the end (Super Sonic, Super Shadow, and Super Cosmo), and perhaps that may not have really been enough. Very few foes in the series have been able to take on Super Sonic like that himself, and also cause him harm. There have been others in the series who managed to be that powerful, and all of them were godly or near-godly beings. Solaris was one, for he could beat Super Sonic himself, actually cause him harm, and required the force of 3 super forms to defeat, even though they merely suppressed the immortal sun/time god, (Super Sonic, Super Shadow, and Super Silver). The other was Dark Gaia, who was also around godly powerful, and he also could hold out against Super Sonic, injure him even in Super form, and took a lot of power to defeat (although not 3 super forms, It took Super Sonic, and the Gaia Colossus, who would probably be around as strong as 1.5 super forms). Though of course not true gods, if the Metarex had that much power to win against Super Sonic like that, actually injure him in Super form, and would need about 3 super forms to stop, that could be considered a godly being. Plus, I must mention that the Metarex had advanced themselves to such a point, that no lesser creature could grasp the nature of their existence, and even though their leaders were originally Seedrians, the perhaps could be considered a totally different race now. Like they are no longer affected by things such as age or much else. The Metarex can be considered a terrifying and incomprehensible alien intelligence waiting in the depths of space awakening every millenium. That definately is saying something. 5. I believe that, because the Chaos emeralds were already being used by Shadow and Sonic, that it was not a super transformation, only a sudden release of a long-in-place restraining bolt. Also, aside from Blaze in her Sol Emerald form, to date I think it is safe to say that NO female character has gone super in licensed Sonic Team games or spinoff series.~Joe Well, Sonic, Shadow, and Silver all had gone super with the same emeralds, so it is possible for 3 to go super at once. And Blaze also had a similar one, like you said. Definately Cosmo's was a Super form, I mean how come Galaxina or the others didn't achieve that form when they weren't wearing their jewels?
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Post by Twilitbeing on Mar 10, 2011 22:02:37 GMT
Yellow Zelkova could've survived too, since we didn't see him acutally fal into the magma. He may have grabbed onto a ledge or something at the last moment and could've made it. And I definately think Red Pine would've survived. Someone like him just wouldn't go down that easily. I'm with you on Red Pine; the thing the battle station collapsed into wasn't acting much like a black hole, and we know Metarex ships can warp. I suspect they use the Galactic Cloister to travel, and that what looked like a suicidal attack (the fortress collapsing) was actually the fleet making its escape with the Planet Egg. Furthermore, perhaps they expected to be followed, and Zelkova stayed behind to ambush anyone who passed through. (Also, vegetation growing uncommonly fast and ensnaring the Typhoon? Sounds like Seedrian work to me.) Zelkova, though, was more than likely dead after the last fight. We didn't see him hit the lava, but Knuckles almost certainly did; he would have said something about it otherwise. In any case, assuming he and Pine did survive, wouldn't it be strange for them to miss out on the climax of the Forestation project?
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Post by XT-421 on Mar 18, 2011 10:48:42 GMT
I have to go to school, so I can't fully argue the points back, but I can argue Zelkova.
Ok, Yellow Zelkova did indeed die, and it was confirmed by Knuckles for sure. They did NOT show Zelkova's death in the english dub because 4kids is For kids, apparently.
Zel fell in, and Knuckles dove down to catch him, and in a fight scene similar to Sonic OVA, where Metal Sonic slaps Sonic's hand away, I believe Zelkova does the same thing. We don't actually SEE him become incinerated by the lava, but the camera zooms out and you hear Knuckles scream Zelkova's name.
Knuckles is a strange fellow, he forms brotherly bonds with whomever slugs him and he slugs back.
~Joe
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Post by galaxina on Mar 20, 2011 1:47:28 GMT
I have to go to school, so I can't fully argue the points back, but I can argue Zelkova. Ok, Yellow Zelkova did indeed die, and it was confirmed by Knuckles for sure. They did NOT show Zelkova's death in the english dub because 4kids is For kids, apparently. Zel fell in, and Knuckles dove down to catch him, and in a fight scene similar to Sonic OVA, where Metal Sonic slaps Sonic's hand away, I believe Zelkova does the same thing. We don't actually SEE him become incinerated by the lava, but the camera zooms out and you hear Knuckles scream Zelkova's name. Knuckles is a strange fellow, he forms brotherly bonds with whomever slugs him and he slugs back. ~Joe Actually when I saw it, it looked more like Knuckles just let him fall in. And from the angle he was at, Knuckles probably couldn't see it, so I still disagree. Besides, actually showing him getting burned alive wouldn't be too violent. I have seen it in some games like that before, like in this one Mario game, you actually see Bowser get burned alive in lava, and also in Super Metroid (the older one for the SNES), they actually showed Crocomire's untimely end in a pit of magma, and it wasn't too graphic. I am not sure, but I also believe there was a Legend of Zelda boss who they actually showed in full view being incinerated to death like that (think it was King Dodongo or some other one) and it wasn't too violent. So I still believe Zelkova still may have survived. I'll even show a clip of the Crocomire one. -->
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Post by §Tsunami§ on May 7, 2011 21:01:36 GMT
Sci-Fi Fantsay Lore is just that. Fantasy Lore. I find arguments on it extremely interesting and fascinating at the many humanstic approaches one can take, variable personality, catalyst empathy/self-interest/attraction.
...I will take a side. XT's point is very valid. Simply, because the creators of the show, even in Japan, can't graphically depict death. Death, is a very sensitive area. To show a clear death automatically ups a TV's audience showing. Thus: Robots or Robotic-like. Or Knock out (Or the most amusing depiction of constant defeat I find is old version of Power-Rangers.) Then again: Blasting off over and over again in Pokemon is also amusing.
Also, the creators of the show have only so much time to focus on everything. They need not put more time to depict a defeat then necessary. Money, Finances.
So, yes. The essenceo f the poitn being shown was that he was dead. The fact it was not detailly shown should not put away the merit. (Personality conflict of Big Idea vs. All the Small details is what is the founding division of this argument). But the former should hold, simply, because that is the outline that would be shown in ths script. And when one is on a budget, the small details should be invested in other things: The Action, not the end of it. Such is why Action is very detailed (As are Romantic interludes).
Also: If they wished him to return, it is /most/ likely he would have turned up at the last episode, if not latter ones. Such a failling of showing is all the more confirmation that he is indeed flalen.
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