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Post by XT-421 on Oct 9, 2009 0:18:10 GMT
Then perhaps it is finally time to pull out my "how to develop characters" book, eh?
On what ways can I improve my characters? XT, of course, must stay the same, for I have plans for him... but I may take some forms of helpful criticsm on him... also I may like some help on this Richard issue... so, I'll PM you right away.
Other than that, I'm waiting for an idea to sprout into my head about writing... I'm dead, lol... I've not touched any story since like Sunday... not even looked at them... (now THAT is something no one should ever do...)
~Joe
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Post by Twilitbeing on Oct 9, 2009 2:44:35 GMT
You just made me think of something. I'm not even sure if it garners its own tip, but I'll give it one regardless.
Tip #10: Read. It's that simple. If you don't know what a good piece of fiction looks like, how can you expect to write one of your own? The best way to learn about writing well is from those who do it for a living. Published authors aren't perfect, but they're often very close to it, and they'll almost always be better than you when you first start out.
How do you learn from them? Analyze what makes them great and try to imitate it. Isolate their faults so you can avoid them. Borrow from their styles, combining more than one where possible, but always with your own unique twist. Recycle their ideas if necessary, but be wary; take the jewel, not the whole crown.
And while I'm at it:
Tip #11: Ask for and accept criticism. People who think you're the best are good for morale, but they don't make you a better writer. Honesty will help you in the long run, but only if you listen well and accept the fact that others are better as spotting your mistakes. Critique isn't supposed to make you feel good; it's supposed to make you become good.
The lesson here: if someone tells you what you're doing wrong, make a genuine effort to correct your mistake the next time through. You'll very likely impress them after a few rounds. "Good job" means a lot more from someone with high standards; take it from someone who remembers.
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Post by XT-421 on Oct 10, 2009 15:19:15 GMT
In addition to Tip 11, I want to say, even if someone does tell you your story sucks, well, I don't exactly know how to say this...
Sometimes, there are people who are just bluntly honest to a rude level, however, I have to think that many of them are rather sympathetic to your feelings, and will just say it is nice or give helpful hints.
Don't let someone discourage you... EVER. Everyone has the potential to do just about anything in the world, and I can give examples that defy most belief to be honest...
I was discouraged for a long time, and didn't want to keep writing anything for awhile... but I got over it, and created a fantastic, (or becoming, at least...) story.
Do not let anyone tell you that you cannot write, even if it is true... I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore... I guess I'd rather talk to the @$$holes out there who like seeing people cry over a few typed words... I hate bullies with a passion...
~Joe
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Post by Twilitbeing on Oct 10, 2009 18:19:16 GMT
I guess that's the other half of #11: know the difference between constructive criticism and just criticism. If you're not sure, get a second opinion, preferably from someone who's given helpful advice in the past. Take suggestions to help you improve, but don't stop writing if just because you can't please one person.
On the other hand, people may assume that you can't take any kind of criticism, and will offer fake compliments rather than an honest opinion. If you want to avoid that, simply ask your readers not to do so.
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Post by §Tsunami§ on Oct 10, 2009 19:57:48 GMT
If there's something I pride more than writing stories, its giving well rounded reviews. If I'm tired and in a rush, I might just say a few positive words, but I generally try to offer negatives and positves, giving both not to sound too much like your best pal, but certainly not your worst enemy.
Tip 12: Finish every story you write. Even if it is terrible, it is a learning experience, a show of development. One reason why it is better to write several chapters before posting. If you lose it, that's an exception. I lost one of my stories, although I think I posted it on here somewhere...
(I still have left one of my fan-fics, Final Dawn, in the dust. I've got chapters ready, but I don't want to post them until Balthazar's Storm II is complete. So that glaring double chapter error is still there... sigh...)
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Post by Twilitbeing on Oct 10, 2009 21:26:46 GMT
I generally focus more on helping people correct mistakes, but I try to give some general praise (where praise is deserved) so they don't think I hate their story. If I start giving regular reviews but skip a certain chapter, it usually means I have no complaints, which is relatively rare.
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Post by XT-421 on Oct 13, 2009 20:58:15 GMT
I know, Zoran... I'm trying... I'm trying... When it comes to writing, I fulfil all of my promises... that is why I keep a board up on FF.net of all of my stories that I've either promised to, started to, am, and have, writing/written.
SoL.6 has not been forgotten... just... placed on temporary hiatus...
But yes, listen to this man, he speaks the truth. (Not me, Tsunami.)
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Post by Twilitbeing on Oct 13, 2009 22:16:50 GMT
Does XT speak in third-person?
I avoid hiatus at all costs; it makes it difficult to get rolling again. I prefer to keep the current chapter in development, writing a little at a time until inspiration strikes me. You can always fix it later if it was written during a creative block.
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Post by §Tsunami§ on Oct 14, 2009 17:02:16 GMT
Yeah, moving left poor Final Dawn stuck forever... but once I get the last two chaps of Balthazar's Storm done, I'm getting that story done too. It's not too long, either, and I've already got a chapter or two started. I just hope I remember what I wanted earlier.
I'm also restarting another story I started here, mostly because I liked its plot, even though its a Sonic Amy Romance Tragedy, both genres I typically avoid without adventure.
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Post by §Tsunami§ on Oct 21, 2009 21:06:15 GMT
Tip #13: A perfect party is boring. Dissonance is entertaining and important.
Not that you're going to have that small party of two that gets along. But each individual has their own mind. For instance, there are places in the shrine-fic where the characters all seem to agree with one another on the course of action, like the classic power ranger team, for example. (Which gets old after a while.)
Once in a while is quite alright, but at first, dissonance is much more powerful. Relationships betweeen characters can be established stronger, rivalries can shine through, and you can actually make your leader seem like a good (or terrible) leader, pending on the circumstance.
Typically, some members act for the whole, while others are selfish. Some will willingly protect others in their team even it it means their death, others watch themself first, or complain everytime they run into a dangerous situation. Tsunami for example, would rather not charge into any danger. This is where stereotypical characters have a hard time and archetypes shine. More complex characters are even more interesting to play with.
The best stories do not forget the development of the team. Think of the characters as cells, the team as a tissue. However, think of it as a rather raw tissue, not quite developed, with many problems that will be encountered along the way. You will find your stories dramatically become more interesting.
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Post by XT-421 on Oct 23, 2009 20:03:32 GMT
That will be so helpful on my next two stories... Wow... thank you for that!
Um... I can't really think of a great tip... I'll think of one in time though... I promise you-
Tip 14: Aha... the Character Death. Afterwhile, reoccuring characters, which always defy death get about as predictable as a clock. Kill them. I mean, take a look at Sonic in my Seed of Love 7 right now... (not linked, but it is on FF.net if you want to read...) We all know and love Sonic, and he's eluded death for a LONG TIME. I mean, he hardly even gets injured badly. I decided to pull his plug in there, and I got SOOO many good (to me) reviews, either compliments the well written scene, or the fact that Sonic died was a good thing.
After awhile, the same story gets repetitive... Hero is awesome, hero save everyone, hero doesn't get hurt or die,d everyone lives happily ever after the end.
LAME!
Try a death, go for some drama. Imagine the looks on people's faces as they watch a character they know and love get a bullet in his face, or have them watch their heroine suffer maliciously at the hands of a captor and then, out of breath and enegy, she just fades away.
The drama is intense. Readers EXPECT their heroes to prevail, andwhen they don't... they are as shocked as they are amazed. "Now what happens? The hero is gone?!"
Let THAT mull around in your heas for awhile... (this may have been sate before... oops if so.)
~Joe
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Post by §Tsunami§ on Oct 25, 2009 16:15:45 GMT
Tip 15: Outline.
How many writers get lost after a while, and then quit their story? Tons. In fact, some of the best writers suffer from writer blocks due to poor planning.
This is what an outline is for. The best outlines are specific, but it is better to start generic, and then work toward specifics. Some authors write the beginning and end first, andthen work toward the middle. You think this is difficult, but in reality, it works well. Personally, I've only done this on essays.
It is quite simple, truly. You need not describe anything but plot. If you are unsure of a particulalry moment, put a question mark, or write several versions of that one moment. Some stories I branch with two different endings, then pick the one I think works the best.
Often, I also make a page for characters, or history. These all aid in your writing, and such informational pages should be used for larger works.
Exception: Short stories. Often, such stories can be written on the fly, and need not an outline. Experience doesn't truly reduce the need of an outline, a good writer always has one, just in case.
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Post by Twilitbeing on Oct 25, 2009 18:06:11 GMT
Yes, I made the mistake of forgetting that... and with a time travel story, no less. Those are difficult to plan at the best of times, considering they have more interlocking plots than a James Bond villain. And, sure enough, continuity issues are starting to appear.
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Post by §Tsunami§ on Oct 26, 2009 17:48:56 GMT
Tip 16: Quality (Art) or Simple (Entertainment)?
This isn't a tip about what to pick, but what path fits you best. Some writers love the entertainment, which is what most fan-fiction is, but professionally is the hardest to succeed in, due to vast competition, but a large, receptive audience. Others who pursue the art of writing find the work difficult, but the competition somewhat thinner, yet standards higher with a smaller audience.
Obviously, those who want to entertain can expect far more reviewers and readers (or none at all), while those who pursue art will find less of both, but it is more likely to have some than none. However, art is difficult, and you may lose both if your story can't mantain it.
Which is best for you? Well, no particular genre you write in decides this. Even sci-fi sees a division, some go more for art (Forgotten Realms and Dungeons and Dragons books fit this), while others (Harry Potter and Twilight for example) are for entertainment. I'll laugh if you call the two stories "quality" writing, it's not art, but entertainment really. Well, you could, but not after you've compared the two styles. Anyway, Drama, Mystery, Adventure, Romance, they can all be the same way.
Me? To be honest, I was entertainment, but am sliding farther and farther toward Art. I'm probably inbetween. You can be a middler, but expect to shift one way or the other in time.
Those of Art tend to have complex characters, more complex plots, and the best word play you'll ever read. Those of Entertainment tend to have simpler, archetypical characters, more basic, entertaining plots, and informal words. Art writers have the best painted scenes, entertainers have simpler scenes. Stereotypes can be used by both, but as stated before, this should be avoided for all but small characters. You'll find entertainers are more likely to employ them and artists.
No one here is fully art, although Twilit is probably the closest. It can be seen more in the scenes he writes. I'll pull an example of both in the next post. Some of XT's stories are clearly toward entertainment, this can be seen strongest in the plot.
To be continued... (Comment as you will)
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Post by XT-421 on Oct 26, 2009 18:57:22 GMT
Ah, but isn't entertainment something that can have a quality as well?
I argue against you here, Zoran... I will NOT say thatthe purpose of all writing is to entertain, because that is obvously false. What of textbooks, historical documents, biographies, and speeches? They are also forms of writing, and obviously are not to entertain.
I would not say though that those are of your "art" section... for they are more fact based, and opinion based than something entertaining or "art"ish.
No, but, I agree with your statement, that there is a boundary between "fun" and "exciting" kind of.
You see, my stories, your stores, Twilit's stories, and a few others I could name off, are pretty good stories, meant to take a reader on a ride through our own ficticious mental realities, where our own worlds and plots exist.
We write for others to read to be excited, not always in the greatest ways, what with the occasional tragedy or horror, but needless to say, our goals, at least, my goals, are to exhilierate people, give them a good laugh, give them a scare, make them empathetic towards a fake figure, ect.
However, there is another class, other thanour own, when it comes to fanfictions, at least. Ours has plenty of degrees and levels of mastery, and there is no top, you can only get better. But, on ther other side... it isn't the same... perhaps their goal was to entertain, and it didn't quie work but...
Maybe I take it back... what other goal is there in fanfiction than to write a good, entertaining story? "Display your skill of the pen?" I don't think so... The only reason I strive for good grammar and well thoguht out stories it because it makes people think that they are reading a published book... (Which, honestly, I've started to notice that my stories would be better as plays, movies, or even just stories to be spoken aloud...)
I don't know about you, but I don't think there is such a story in fanfictioning that exists for "art." And I say "art" because I think even an entertaining story can be of good quality, it is not one or the other in the slightest.
Please, someon contradict me, and make me eat my words with a proof that won't take me two weeks to read...
~Joe
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Post by Twilitbeing on Oct 26, 2009 21:36:02 GMT
What Tsunami means, I think, is that there are two methods for writing fiction (which does not include textbooks; those are a form of information media, a different category entirely.) To say that a story leans more toward "art" does not prevent it from being entertaining; nor is "entertainment" entirely outside the realm of art. The difference has more to do with the author's approach.
To say that fanfiction doesn't qualify as art is an impossible statement. My reasoning: art has no definition. Paradoxically, that very fact makes art what it is. If you try to put a fence around it, so to speak, you turn it into something else.
The argument I often hear is that fanfiction is not creative because ideas are borrowed from another source. But like art itself or any genre within it, there's no standard on which to base that point. The diabolical deathtrap is also "borrowed," as are the rare miracle cure, the ally-turned-enemy, the superluminal vehicle, and a thousand other components that we and others have used again and again. Writing is like chemistry: only so many elements exist, but the possible products are endless, and they're what people care about. If a certain person whose name sounds like "bog dirt" doesn't want chlorine in his compound, fine; he can go without salt. (Extended metaphors are fun.)
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Post by §Tsunami§ on Oct 27, 2009 11:55:38 GMT
Well, perhaps I should have explained myself more on what I said.
One: I am ignoring non-fiction, primarily because that is a very different area. There, you have persuasion, informing, entertaining, special occasion, etc... Two: Entertaining stories can be very good, and art can be entertaining. Here is where I confused some. The best metaphor I can get to display my thoughts accurately here, is music. Here: Everyday music, pop, rock and roll, country. That's the entertainment. Now, there can be very good music here. Then there is contemporary classic music, minimalist, neoclassical and even film music. Some film music is incredibly entertaining, but it completely approached artistically. Trust me, music written for even films like Lord of the Rings is made with a certain artistic objective in mind to fit each scene.
Yes, people go to concerts to listen to music, but the music is made with techniques and complexities the simpler genres of rock would never dare touch. That is what I mean by Art and Entertainment. One is simply simpler, because it must be to entertain well. Simple can be good. Art tends to be more complex, because sometimes that must be what needs to be done. But it can be entertaining.
A stereotypical way of concluding all this is to say that one cares more for money while the other for science. Or, that film composers complete must manipulate all human emotions and senses, while the scene at the same time, with diverse number of instruments, while recording artists work with typically smaller groups, simpler music, and less focused on emotion and senses.
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Post by Twilitbeing on Oct 27, 2009 20:11:09 GMT
Personally, I don't like to set any work entirely on either side. Fiction would never be written if it wasn't art, and it would never be read if it wasn't entertainment. Every genre has its own feel, but that doesn't make it more or less artistic. One facet is subtle and appeals to the intellect; the other is raw energy and passion. There's nothing "simple" about either. (I say "facet" because both elements can occur together. Logos and pathos come to mind.)
And... with all due respect, to say that one side is motivated entirely by money is ridiculous. If that were true, every so-called "entertainment" film producer would be selling porn; instead, they've given us Star Wars. It would also mean that XT, who's never made a cent with his writing, is an utter failure.
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Post by §Tsunami§ on Oct 27, 2009 20:38:58 GMT
I agree on your final statement there, writers tend not to be to extreme on either (but some exist...) Please, don't ever try to sell a painting just painted grey.
Writers... choose your path, but do not stir too radically to either end either. Balance is good, but unrealistic. Let one be dominant then, the other secondary, like a Strong Light with a weak, but non-vanquishable Dark.
Tip # 17: Diction choice.
Here is a very simple tip. Diction, simply is word choice, in which words can be formal, informal, casual. (Note diction is not at all constrained to such few words.) There are a variety of choices. If you are writing a romance you would be a fool to write in too formal of diction, but a fool not to have flavorful words either. But by all the good, don't use a fancy word that you don't know the meaning of.
P.O.V. can also influence diction. First-Person may have a far more formal aproach. Often I wish those writing in Tails p.o.v. would attempt this, the fox after all has great mechanical prowess and language. Diction illustrating Sonic's p.o.v. would be far different, and perhaps not formal at all.
Finally, audience and characters can. Obviously, if you have a younger audience, avoid over using technical, mechanical, or scientific words to people who don't have any idea what it is. Go simple, and show images easier to grasp. If your character lives in a certain location, displaying dialect of that location in dialogue can be great. Avoid however, using it in non-dialouge, but again, P.O.V, audience, and other factors will ultimately decide your diction.
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Post by Twilitbeing on Oct 27, 2009 23:48:46 GMT
He's talking to me again. Experience has taught me a few things: don't mention (insert advanced scientific theory) without some kind of explanation nearby; don't expect readers to know the difference between gravity and gravitation; don't make geeky and unfunny references or puns. (Unless it's a character doing so, of course. Or you're Douglas Adams. Which you're not. So don't.) Tip #18 - Real ScienceBut by all the good, don't use a fancy word that you don't know the meaning of. This is one of my pet peeves: people who attempt to create science fiction or an impression of intelligence by (a) throwing jargon around like confetti and (b) pulling in stereotypical elements in the wrong context. Some do this deliberately, while others are simply mistaken about the facts. It so happens that most sci-fi fans are scientific themselves; they'll see right through you. Use carefully: plasma, ion (especially "ion drive"), fuel cell, energy, vaporize, suck (particularly black holes - it's fall), shield/field, theory (commonly misused), beam, pulse, thruster, reactor, dynamo, drive, rifle, hyper, core, overload, meltdown. Know the difference: gravity and gravitation, mass and weight, speed and velocity, heat and temperature, fission and fusion, gas and gasoline (surprising, but it happens), radiation and radioactivity, black holes and wormholes, dark matter and antimatter, protons and photons, zero gravity and free-fall. Never use: mispronunciations ("nucular"), incorrect plurals ("supernovas"), invented words with no meaning ("turboencabulator"), nonsensical hybrid phrases ( "hyper velocity" ACTUALLY A TERM, sorry!), vague cliches ("warp drive"), real words with incorrect meanings ("carbonite" in Star Wars), redundancy ("photon laser"). Finally, you must never, ever attempt to deliberately mislead your audience by stringing real words together in a way that has no meaning. It's a lazy substitute for research, and you'll end up looking stupid if someone knows what the words mean. Every time you technobabble, a kitten succumbs to acute monomolecular dilation.
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